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Emerje wrote:What if "Swindle" is just a straight repaint of Beachcomber as Cybertron Swindle.

Or what if swindle is actually one of the new rock guys with his mineral type being based on fools gold...

THERE HE IS, my boy Red Alert. My fears are gone and are replaced with excitement for the Primes we should’ve gotten during PotP

Emerje wrote:What if "Swindle" is just a straight repaint of Beachcomber as Cybertron Swindle.



Emerje

It’s odd that it would not mention exactly what “universe” it’s from like Wasp. Also Cyb Swindle was the second use of that mold in Cybertron, so even more odd that they’d use that as a basis.

If it is actually missing a “universe” designation I’d expect it to be Animated.


Transformers Animated Swindle Gallery

A lone combaticon makes very little sense. Unless the rest are coming later.

noctorro wrote:It might just be my autism but anybody else conflicted by this member-berries Legacy line?

Not for Armada, but I was when it started and I realized that all my CHUG toys could be replaced by new toys with a consistent size (bot mode wise) and a similar style.

But I liked my current collection that I spent years on.

In the end I decided to replace only the toys I was genuinely unhappy with or there was a real improvement on. Like the Seekers, Soundwave, the Insecticons ... there's still quite a few. But I wound up passing on other items like Omega Supreme, Jetfire, a few Autobots, many "minibots".

Then I had it again with Menasor. I had to question whether I really wanted to go the Combiner route again. Because Unite Warriors (the sets I have), to me, are one, big set with interchangeable limbs. And I have some of these guys twice over (I have some 3P combiners). So do I want yet another Menasor? Even if it's the best Menasor so far? Probably the best they'll make?

No. No, the UW guys are one big set to me. Even if Menasor is better it breaks my set and, besides, he has 3P upgrades that make him look better.

So maybe the "set" is more important than just the one guy. Sometimes it's like that.

Giving it more thought, I do think it is actually G1 Swindle, for a few reasons. As has always been pointed out, the most obvious thing is that there's no universe specified in the listing, which normally just means it's a G1 bot. There have been a few exceptions to this like Animated Prowl, but if we look at Animated as an example then 4/5 of the currently confirmed Animated updates do say that they're Animated (Prime, Bee, Motormaster, and Wasp), so no universe designation = G1 has still been accurate the majority of the time. There's also the fact that doing Legacy Menasor in the span of a year seemingly forced one of the limb bots to have to be a retool, based on the way the Breakdown BTS post talked about it, but none of the Combaticons work as retools of each other, so breaking them up more potentially gets around that.

The biggest reason for this to be G1 Swindle in my mind, though, comes when you think about what we're looking at here in these listings:
-A year-long/potentially trilogy-long theme around the 13 Primes
-New Superion molds
-Now possibly the first of a new set of Combaticon molds
....as long as the individual limb bots aren't locked into dedicated slots and maintain at least some amount of Scramble City functionality, that's the perfect recipe for a new Nexus Prime to release.

Nemesis Primal wrote:There have been a few exceptions to this like Animated Prowl, but if we look at Animated as an example then 4/5 of the currently confirmed Animated updates do say that they're Animated (Prime, Bee, Motormaster, and Wasp), so no universe designation = G1 has still been accurate the majority of the time.

Huh? Prowl's box does say "Animated Universe":

I think Nemesis Primal meant that there was no specific label when word of Animated Prowl was first leaked. Which I seem to remember it was just “Prowl”.

Sabrblade wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:There have been a few exceptions to this like Animated Prowl, but if we look at Animated as an example then 4/5 of the currently confirmed Animated updates do say that they're Animated (Prime, Bee, Motormaster, and Wasp), so no universe designation = G1 has still been accurate the majority of the time.

Huh? Prowl's box does say "Animated Universe":

His box does, yes. I'm referring to the leaked listings for that year, and how his just said "Prowl" with no specified universe. We had no indication which Prowl it would be until we saw the Animated Space Bridge on the Evolution poster.

Sowndwave76 wrote:I think Nemesis Primal meant that there was no specific label when word of Animated Prowl was first leaked. Which I seem to remember it was just “Prowl”.

Exactly.

Nemesis Primal wrote:....as long as the individual limb bots aren't locked into dedicated slots and maintain at least some amount of Scramble City functionality, that's the perfect recipe for a new Nexus Prime to release.

Wouldn't it have made more sense to start with Brawl or Vortex since there's no Jeep in Nexus Prime? In fact the tank mold used in Nexus was also a Swindle in Japan, Blight in Energon.



This is giving me a headache...

Emerje

With some of these leaked listings (assuming they're true), I have a thought/theory on the timing... If you're one that hates when people speculate, then you'll want to scroll on.

2026 will bring the 40th Anniversary of the '86 movie, which for me makes the releases of some of these SS86 figures in 2025 surprising.
I'm by no means complaining that Megatron, the Constructicons, and even Galvatron will be released next year.

But here's my thought/theory:
Is it possible that the huge influx of G1 characters to come in 2025 is a response to a slump in Legacy sales from the mainline branching-out into various series?
I'm finding it interesting that the balance of G1 and non-G1 figures is being almost completely flipped. No, I haven't done any tallying. And yes, I understand more figures will be released than what's been leaked. But as of right now, it seems like the ratio for '25 is the opposite, or very close to the opposite of what we're getting this year.
If figures of characters from other series were selling really well, then why wouldn't that continue?
There are more than enough characters from other series to fill the 4 waves of a year, especially if there's a small sprinkling of G1 minimally worked in.
With this, it's surprising that the Constructions, Megatron, and Galvatron weren't held back for 2026.
Of course I understand these are SS86 releases which isn't the mainline.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but at the end of the day, sales from SS, SS86, the mainline, Earthspark, Cyberverse, etc., are all figured together as TF action figure toyline sales.

It seems like Hastak took a justified chance on branching-out, and maybe went too far too fast. What I mean by this is that the branch forked too much. This isn't me saying there should have been more G1 in the mix.
I'm just wondering if there should have been a more strategic approach; maybe gradually adding in different series. I mean Hastak has to know which series are more popular than others, right?
So if Armada is one of the most popular, why not release a couple more from that series before introducing any updated Rescue Bots or Cyberverse figures?
At any rate, between a lot of G1 in the mainline, and a lot of G1 in SS86 next year, to me it seems like a damage-control type of response to lower sales. Again, if everything with Legacy was on the up and up, why not dive further into what's been started in the last couple years, continue into the various series, and then get back to more G1 characters/figures during the anniversary of the animated movie?
I'm trying not to spiral-out too much, but the Constructicons and Megatron are both really big releases... What '86 movie characters are even left for 2026 that haven't been recently updated? Maybe Bumblebee?? In the same vein of being released early, I've had this thought with SS86 Springer and CC Prime. We all know there are other SS figures that could be released that are overdue. Springer and Prime are two more that would've made for a solid anniversary year. I know all of these in one year would have been a financial stretch for a lot of people. And sure, Hastak probably has it all sorted. But seriously, what's left to release for the anniversary? I won't call re-packs of any SS86 figures much of a nod, let alone a celebration.

I've jumped around a little bit, but does anyone else think Hastak is going back to the G1 well in 2025 to get the profit ship back on course?

I don't think it's all 1986. This is a thread about them releasing the 13 Primes. There's also Red Alert, Heat Wave and more. They even said TF was one of their bright spots.

I think they just want to keep The G1 train going. I think the idea of just no G1 at all from Legacy onwards was unrealistic.

Plus, 2026 will also be the 30th anniversary of Beast Wars. Every time TFTM gets an anniversary year, it's shared with Beast Wars's anniversary years.

We're pretty much at a point now where every 5 years is now another anniversary for one thing or another.

I wonder if they're going to do some interesting tricks with Silverbolt.

Considering he turns into a massive Passenger Jet, but still needs to scale with the other Aerialbots, maybe only a small part of the jet will turn into Silverbolt, with some fake kibble in robot mode to sell it (like Motormaster's truck cab feet), while the remaining parts of the jet would become Superion's framework?

Who knows, maybe they can engineer it so Silverbolt CAN turn into a small scale Concorde Jet, but also combine with the rest of the parts to become the full-sized version. Like Legacy Tidal Wave's shenanigans with the smaller scale Dark Fleet.

Sowndwave76 wrote:With some of these leaked listings (assuming they're true), I have a thought/theory on the timing... If you're one that hates when people speculate, then you'll want to scroll on.

2026 will bring the 40th Anniversary of the '86 movie, which for me makes the releases of some of these SS86 figures in 2025 surprising.
I'm by no means complaining that Megatron, the Constructicons, and even Galvatron will be released next year.

But here's my thought/theory:
Is it possible that the huge influx of G1 characters to come in 2025 is a response to a slump in Legacy sales from the mainline branching-out into various series?
I'm finding it interesting that the balance of G1 and non-G1 figures is being almost completely flipped. No, I haven't done any tallying. And yes, I understand more figures will be released than what's been leaked. But as of right now, it seems like the ratio for '25 is the opposite, or very close to the opposite of what we're getting this year.
If figures of characters from other series were selling really well, then why wouldn't that continue?
There are more than enough characters from other series to fill the 4 waves of a year, especially if there's a small sprinkling of G1 minimally worked in.
With this, it's surprising that the Constructions, Megatron, and Galvatron weren't held back for 2026.
Of course I understand these are SS86 releases which isn't the mainline.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but at the end of the day, sales from SS, SS86, the mainline, Earthspark, Cyberverse, etc., are all figured together as TF action figure toyline sales.

It seems like Hastak took a justified chance on branching-out, and maybe went too far too fast. What I mean by this is that the branch forked too much. This isn't me saying there should have been more G1 in the mix.
I'm just wondering if there should have been a more strategic approach; maybe gradually adding in different series. I mean Hastak has to know which series are more popular than others, right?
So if Armada is one of the most popular, why not release a couple more from that series before introducing any updated Rescue Bots or Cyberverse figures?
At any rate, between a lot of G1 in the mainline, and a lot of G1 in SS86 next year, to me it seems like a damage-control type of response to lower sales. Again, if everything with Legacy was on the up and up, why not dive further into what's been started in the last couple years, continue into the various series, and then get back to more G1 characters/figures during the anniversary of the animated movie?
I'm trying not to spiral-out too much, but the Constructicons and Megatron are both really big releases... What '86 movie characters are even left for 2026 that haven't been recently updated? Maybe Bumblebee?? In the same vein of being released early, I've had this thought with SS86 Springer and CC Prime. We all know there are other SS figures that could be released that are overdue. Springer and Prime are two more that would've made for a solid anniversary year. I know all of these in one year would have been a financial stretch for a lot of people. And sure, Hastak probably has it all sorted. But seriously, what's left to release for the anniversary? I won't call re-packs of any SS86 figures much of a nod, let alone a celebration.

I've jumped around a little bit, but does anyone else think Hastak is going back to the G1 well in 2025 to get the profit ship back on course?

Oh, it's more than an anniversary for the movie

?

Emerje wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:....as long as the individual limb bots aren't locked into dedicated slots and maintain at least some amount of Scramble City functionality, that's the perfect recipe for a new Nexus Prime to release.

Wouldn't it have made more sense to start with Brawl or Vortex since there's no Jeep in Nexus Prime? In fact the tank mold used in Nexus was also a Swindle in Japan, Blight in Energon.



This is giving me a headache...

Emerje

If the plan is just to speedrun getting to Nexus as soon as possible, then yeah it would have, but I think with the amount of time it's gonna take to get this done it won't really matter anyway. Based on how Menasor went, how G2 Menasor is currently going, and these listings here, the only way they were gonna get Nexus done within one year would be if they prioritized specifically the combination of molds needed for Nexus over completing the G1 teams, which I highly doubt would be something a vocal majority of people would be okay with. As it stands we're looking at a potential schedule along the lines of:
2025: Either 4/5 Superion components or a whole Superion, plus 1/5 Bruticus components to help budget a new mold for every Combaticon
2026: Finish Bruticus, plus finish Superion if needed (this really depends on what class Onslaught and Silverbolt would each be releasing as)
Either 2026 or possibly 2027: now that all the molds are available, Pulsecon exclusive Nexus Prime (since that's pretty much the only way we see full combiner sets release) as one of the high points of this whole 13 Primes collection

That's the theory I'm sticking with for now, anyway. It makes the same amount of weird perfect sense to me as HasTak releasing both Mayhem and Star Seeker capsules in the same year as big-ass Tidal Wave.

Nemesis Primal wrote:

Emerje wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:....as long as the individual limb bots aren't locked into dedicated slots and maintain at least some amount of Scramble City functionality, that's the perfect recipe for a new Nexus Prime to release.

Wouldn't it have made more sense to start with Brawl or Vortex since there's no Jeep in Nexus Prime? In fact the tank mold used in Nexus was also a Swindle in Japan, Blight in Energon.



This is giving me a headache...

Emerje

If the plan is just to speedrun getting to Nexus as soon as possible, then yeah it would have, but I think with the amount of time it's gonna take to get this done it won't really matter anyway. Based on how Menasor went, how G2 Menasor is currently going, and these listings here, the only way they were gonna get Nexus done within one year would be if they prioritized specifically the combination of molds needed for Nexus over completing the G1 teams, which I highly doubt would be something a vocal majority of people would be okay with. As it stands we're looking at a potential schedule along the lines of:
2025: Either 4/5 Superion components or a whole Superion, plus 1/5 Bruticus components to help budget a new mold for every Combaticon
2026: Finish Bruticus, plus finish Superion if needed (this really depends on what class Onslaught and Silverbolt would each be releasing as)
Either 2026 or possibly 2027: now that all the molds are available, Pulsecon exclusive Nexus Prime (since that's pretty much the only way we see full combiner sets release) as one of the high points of this whole 13 Primes collection

That's the theory I'm sticking with for now, anyway. It makes the same amount of weird perfect sense to me as HasTak releasing both Mayhem and Star Seeker capsules in the same year as big-ass Tidal Wave.

In hindsight the list isn't necessarily in release order even if they're in product number order, maybe Swindle is part of the December 2025 as a sort of "preview" of the next series like they used to do in the past with figures like Kingdom Blaster. Heck, maybe Nexus Heatwave will be a fan shop exclusive since he is technically a Shattered Glass Heroic Decepticon, I'd like to see him in SG packaging rather than whatever the name of the series is at the time.

Emerje

It'll be fun to see what they do with the Primes, design-wise.

bluecatcinema wrote:It'll be fun to see what they do with the Primes, design-wise.

It sure will be. The familiar lines lean more towards the Prime aesthetic and we know how that's been going at retail. But I'm more curious about what they'll turn into. A lot of them don't have well known alt modes (if any) so they'll have to be creative there as well. Hopefully we get a Dreamwave/Titanium style The Fallen with lots of plug in flame effects.




And not this guy:




Emerje

Emerje wrote:

bluecatcinema wrote:It'll be fun to see what they do with the Primes, design-wise.

It sure will be. The familiar lines lean more towards the Prime aesthetic and we know how that's been going at retail. But I'm more curious about what they'll turn into. A lot of them don't have well known alt modes (if any) so they'll have to be creative there as well.

Especially since, if they do base any of them on their Aligned designs, the Covenant of Primus book revealed that all of them predated the onset of Transformation, so none of them ever actually transformed into any altmodes (except, arguably, for Amalgamous Prime, since his whole thing was that his body was a mass of constantly shifting parts that were always changing form).

Emerje wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:....as long as the individual limb bots aren't locked into dedicated slots and maintain at least some amount of Scramble City functionality, that's the perfect recipe for a new Nexus Prime to release.

Wouldn't it have made more sense to start with Brawl or Vortex since there's no Jeep in Nexus Prime? In fact the tank mold used in Nexus was also a Swindle in Japan, Blight in Energon.



This is giving me a headache...

Emerje

If it is Energon Swindle it raises so many questions, it’s just weird.

Outside of Core Megs, they decide to star the Energon homages with a combiner limb?

Overcracker wrote:

Emerje wrote:

Nemesis Primal wrote:....as long as the individual limb bots aren't locked into dedicated slots and maintain at least some amount of Scramble City functionality, that's the perfect recipe for a new Nexus Prime to release.

Wouldn't it have made more sense to start with Brawl or Vortex since there's no Jeep in Nexus Prime? In fact the tank mold used in Nexus was also a Swindle in Japan, Blight in Energon.



This is giving me a headache...

Emerje

If it is Energon Swindle it raises so many questions, it’s just weird to.

Outside of Core Megs, they decide to star the Energon homages with a combiner limb?

The idea they're thinking of is to release molds that would later be redecoed into the components of Nexus Prime.

Doing the 13 at last together has me very excited. I hope they shoot for a mix of Covenant of Primus/IDW2005/TFCC.

Nexus is my favorite, so I really hope he comes out good!

A proper loki-esque Liege would be awesome.

I think I'd like an aligned style Megatronus, I'm not a big fan of the dreamwave one, movie already did theirs, and I wasn't a big fan of RiD2015 or Prime Wars either.

Solus had better have her big hammer.

As for the rest, I like the lineup, especially with a 2nd Rescuebot, halfway through the OG cast!

If I am being honest though, I hate that they are starting to go through the G1 combiners again. I'd really like to see RiD2015 or Energon combiners or even FOC Bruticus get the treatment first before we re-tread.

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:Doing the 13 at last together has me very excited. I hope they shoot for a mix of Covenant of Primus/IDW2005/TFCC.

Nexus is my favorite, so I really hope he comes out good!

A proper loki-esque Liege would be awesome.

I think I'd like an aligned style Megatronus, I'm not a big fan of the dreamwave one, movie already did theirs, and I wasn't a big fan of RiD2015 or Prime Wars either.

Solus had better have her big hammer.

As for the rest, I like the lineup, especially with a 2nd Rescuebot, halfway through the OG cast!

If I am being honest though, I hate that they are starting to go through the G1 combiners again. I'd really like to see RiD2015 or Energon combiners or even FOC Bruticus get the treatment first before we re-tread.

DELUXE/VOYAGER SIZED MONSTRUCTOR, DAMMIT.