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There's huge discussion regarding each new MP, but I figure since each major line has it's own General Discussion thread then it's about time we had one for the Masterpieces!

I'll kick it off with a couple thoughts:
-How do you feel about the current direction Takara is taking with slavish cartoon accuracy?
-The last Seeker (Dirge) is about to be released. Do you think that perhaps an injustice has been done by remolding MP-3 over and over again rather than starting over from scratch?
-The rate of releases is pretty steady. Anyone think MP-50 will be a big deal?

Discuss!

shajaki wrote:There's huge discussion regarding each new MP, but I figure since each major line has it's own General Discussion thread then it's about time we had one for the Masterpieces!

I'll kick it off with a couple thoughts:
-How do you feel about the current direction Takara is taking with slavish cartoon accuracy?
-The last Seeker (Dirge) is about to be released. Do you think that perhaps an injustice has been done by remolding MP-3 over and over again rather than starting over from scratch?
-The rate of releases is pretty steady. Anyone think MP-50 will be a big deal?

Discuss!

-I'm entirely fine with them going in a cartoon-accurate direction. I don't mind more details on the figures either, as long as it doesn't take away from looking like their animated selves.
-Personally i would have liked to see an entire new mold seeker, instead of one that leans heavily on mp-3 and its limited transformation tech when compared to what we get nowadays. They're interesting figures but they could be a lot more toon-accurate, especially the lower half and back. If they can to magic like on inferno or megatron, surely they can do this.
-Given the current release rate, number 50 will probably be here in 2019. I expect they'll pull a special character out of their hat.

shajaki wrote:-How do you feel about the current direction Takara is taking with slavish cartoon accuracy?

I like it! Ever since they went this way I find myself enjoying the figures even more. The transformations are brilliant, and the accessories are fun!

I've been waiting for a thread like this to come up. For someone who's just getting into the masterpiece line it'll be nice to be able to talk about the older ones I'm picking up.

To answer the questions at hand though:
-i like the direction the line is going. I think it's really cool that they've found a way to do realistic looking alt modes that transform into near perfect show models. I do know that this isn't everyone's cup of tea though and that's why I think Takara needs to utilize the + line more. They can do show accurate color schemes for the regular release but then do toy colors or something for the + version. Pretty much the opposite of what they did for red alert.

-Dirge will be the first conehead I'm picking up and while I think he looks good I do wish they just made a brand new seeker mold from the beginning. The jet modes are sexy but the robots are a bit clunky and awkward. Plus unless I'm doing something wrong the torsos don't lock in so moving the arms causes it to just slide up. Pretty terrible design flaw.

-i think they'll do someone big for number 50. That's a pretty big milestone for the line and I just hope it's not a redo of Optimus. MP-10 is pretty much perfect so I'd rather they save it for like Jetfire or Galvatron or something a bit out there like Laser prime. That would be cool.

Awesome, it's nice to have an actual general discussion rather than hopping around trying to find old buried threads of whatever you want to talk about. One thing I'm curious about; what's everyone's least favourite MP? Maybe it's a bit of a negative note, but... ehh, I'm curious anyhow especially to see how my MP Road Rage holds up.
Oh, and I suppose I mean least favourite from MP-10 onwards. MP-05 Megatron and MP-09 Rodimus would be very obvious contenders and picks otherwise...

I really like my MP-09. He's currently sat in car mode. It's nice, big and beautiful in the display case.


Which is something I liked about the earlier MP's. They had a size and presence to them that got lost when the cars came along. They are still engineering marvels though.


I like the cartoon accurate way they are going. Especially with the BW guys. I do think some of the more recent are a bit too accurate though. I think MP10 did it best. It's like he just stepped out of the toon, but he has some real world details to help break up the vast sections of plainess on his body, like rivets and bolts. That is the level of detail I would like on MP. And why I'm so happy the BW guys have animation accurate fur patterns instead of realistic fur patterns.


I think it's fine to use the same mould for all the seekers. Because if they released an entirely new one, everyone would be wanting all 6 in the new style and we don't need 3 versions of the same characters, given how much repaints it gets outside the normal 6.


50 should be a big deal. I think they'll save Galvatron for then. He's the only leader from the non Takara specific shows not to be released (the others have been released twice technically).

shajaki wrote:-How do you feel about the current direction Takara is taking with slavish cartoon accuracy?

Apparently I'll get lot of ennemies here, but I absolutely hates it.

I stopped looking at MPs after MP-10.
The lack of details in the cartoon was not a style, only cost decision and lack of motivation. Reproducing this on toys makes no sense to me.
The worst of all is probably Magnus in my opinion, where the Generations looks better.

shajaki wrote:-The rate of releases is pretty steady.

If not to regular.
It loses the "exceptionality" of masterpiece figure. It's now only a regular line.

Kurona wrote:Awesome, it's nice to have an actual general discussion rather than hopping around trying to find old buried threads of whatever you want to talk about. One thing I'm curious about; what's everyone's least favourite MP? Maybe it's a bit of a negative note, but... ehh, I'm curious anyhow especially to see how my MP Road Rage holds up.
Oh, and I suppose I mean least favourite from MP-10 onwards. MP-05 Megatron and MP-09 Rodimus would be very obvious contenders and picks otherwise...

For me the only MP that I have that I don't particularly care for is Ravage. His cassette mode is super messy and he just doesn't really look that great.

Thanks for the support and interest everyone! My first reactions are that I'm surprised how many supporters there are of the cartoon accuracy, given all the complaining I've seen over the recent additions.

Rodimus Prime wrote:I do hope they do a special character for MP-50, though they didn't do one for MP-25 or MP-30, so i'm not holding my breath. My choice would be G2 Megatron.

steals_your_goats wrote:i think they'll do someone big for number 50. That's a pretty big milestone for the line and I just hope it's not a redo of Optimus. MP-10 is pretty much perfect so I'd rather they save it for like Jetfire or Galvatron.

This is why it's in question for me. Two things they sort of celebrated about were Star Saber and Primal, so it's not to say they don't have special occasions in the MP line. But on the other hand, they weren't based on the numbers. Still, 50 is a big number to ignore

wilcosu35 wrote:Personally i would have liked to see an entire new mold seeker, instead of one that leans heavily on mp-3 and its limited transformation tech when compared to what we get nowadays. If they can to magic like on inferno or megatron, surely they can do this.

Willyjay wrote:Thats one of my biggest gripes with the line. I really feel they should have started from scratch with MP11 or at least started from scratch for the Coneheads.

Yeah, they should all be based off of one mold, but they're currently all based on the heavily bastardized MP-3. Nowadays we have ladder magic, and the nosecone back kibble of the Coneheads just seems unacceptable to me at this point

ExciKaiser wrote:Apparently I'll get lot of ennemies here, but I absolutely hates it.
I stopped looking at MPs after MP-10.
The lack of details in the cartoon was not a style, only cost decision and lack of motivation. Reproducing this on toys makes no sense to me.

No worries, we all have our specific tastes. And I realized something: with the current direction Takara is taking, and the community currently split over it, it doesn't mean you'll be left in the dust. Not by the 3P's anyways! They don't seem to be slowed down much when the official product comes out, and it's likely due to how different they are from one another. And one of their biggest selling points seems to be leaving in the realistic details.

ExciKaiser wrote:It loses the "exceptionality" of masterpiece figure. It's now only a regular line.

Not to me. It's still incredibly special, and being the whore I am all I want is more

[copied and pasted from another thread]

I really am not very interested in the G1 style MP figures. Or even the Beast Wars ones. I mean, they are cool, but they are supposed to look simple while also having very complicated transformations at the same time, so you end up with boxes, spheres, and smooth panels with a bunch of hinges and transformation joints showing, and that bothers me.

Instead of simplistic designs in a complicated figure, I think this style of line works way better for the movie designs. They are complicated designs that need complicated transformations to look good and accurate without a bunch of kibble, and this works OH so perfectly. So at all you G1 and Beast Wars Masterpiece collectors, more power to you, but I like my Beast Wars and G1 designs easier to transform and go "kwa cho cho" with.

Huh, I thought this was just for the normal Masterpiece line. I don't mind having it extend to MPMs as well (and, really, I have no say in it and if I opposed it I'd be a bit of an ass), but it does make me realise that we can't just say 'Masterpiece' anymore without it possibly including MPMs. We need a way to differentiate it from MPMs. MPG1? I know that doesn't include BW MPs but I see that as an advantage more than anything since they deserve their own category, even if Takara isn't willing to give them one.

shajaki wrote:
I'll kick it off with a couple thoughts:
-How do you feel about the current direction Takara is taking with slavish cartoon accuracy?

Hate it. Hate it so much that I'm pretty.much going full third party. Another reason I hate the change in designers is the quality. I know the quality has nothing to do with designers but after hausi left there was a change in the quality of them. Paint chipping stuff breaking the chrome being crap. And who makes a design chance in the middle of the line. You don't go from a toy/toon hybrid line to full toon. That just irks me sooo much. And the prices. Oh. My. God. $230 for a paint chipping megs. $140 for the fusos the size of Ironhide and ratchet. How. How does it make any sense whatsoever. How are mp-36 and mp-39 cartoon accurate when there's so much kibboe all over the place on them. Megs back is a kibbly mess. Should I even talk about sunstreaker and his buttflap and backpack

I've always viewed the Masterpiece line as being a line for cartoon-accurate figures from the start, with any additional details given to the figures as just being extra fluff.

Back when MP-1 was first revealed, by initial reaction was along the lines of "HOORAY! They finally made an Original Optimus Prime toy that looks like how he looked in the show!" As a child and even to this day, I've always been the kind of fan who wants to own toys of what I see on TV, or in comics, or in movies, or in video games, or in whatever media the Transformers appear in. And I've always wanted the toys to resemble how they looked in said media because it's how they looked in said media that drew me to wanting toys of them in the first place, and so I've come to view how the character look in the media as being how they are "supposed to look".

Thus, back when MP-3 was first shown in all his real world-based teals and pinks and such, I was completely weirded out by his "wrong" colors, and instead pursued the Hasbro version of Masterpiece Starscream for his more "right" colors.

I also recall back when MP-9 came out with also his cartoon-accurate sculpting, and when Hasbro revealed their own take on Masterpiece Rodimus Prime, I cried out in anguish over Hasbro having given him the "wrong" deco. All that cartoon-accurate sculpting and Hasbro instead gave him toy-accurate colors and a Studio OX-based chest flame, all just to be "different" from Takara's take, to add "variety" to their option vs. Takara's option. I, however, was one of those fans who was only buying Hasbro's MPs because I had not yet graduated to online shopping at the time. I was still a teenager who relied on cash allowances rather than a direct deposited income and debit card, so my purchases were still limited to brick-and-mortar store purchases only.

Hasbro's 20th Anniversary Optimus Prime (the, uh, first one) was close enough to Takara's MP-1 that the shortened smokestacks and battle damage didn't bother me so much. Hasbro's MP Starscream and Skywarp were both closer to cartoon-accurate in deco than Takara's MP-3 and MP-6 were. And Hasbro's MP Grimlock was barely different from Takara's MP-8. But Hasbro's MP Rodimus was the first one whose deco really irked me at the time. But nowadays, I'm glad to have gotten it since I can use it for a Beast Era Wreckers display (should I ever get around to hunting down more of that group's members), as Rodimus in the old BotCon Wreckers comics had his cartoon body in toy-accurate colors, so what was once a begrudging purchase for me turned out to be serndipitous (and yes, my Hasbro Rodimus is still in one piece).



So yeah, I'm all for the media-accurate MPs. Gives us something we've haven't had before for a lot of these characters, so once these happen, then they can start branching out into more ideas.

SillyMcGilly wrote:So at all you G1 and Beast Wars Masterpiece collectors, more power to you, but I like my Beast Wars and G1 designs easier to transform and go "kwa cho cho" with.

So if I got you straight, if they look simple then they should be simple?

Kurona wrote:Huh, I thought this was just for the normal Masterpiece line. I don't mind having it extend to MPMs as well.

I made the thread with the intent of discussing all forms of MP's. Whether they be Hasbro, Takara, Beast Wars, MPM, or whatever else comes down the pipe. As far as how to differentiate them, just MPM, BWMP, and all the rest just being MP? Works for me

Although I was surprised when the BWMP were released under the normal MP title

Bumblebee21 wrote:Paint chipping stuff breaking the chrome being crap.

I can't speak to that. The only QC issues I've personally experienced id MP-5's diecast rust, and I have yet to open my 36.

Bumblebee21 wrote:And who makes a design chance in the middle of the line. You don't go from a toy/toon hybrid line to full toon. That just irks me sooo much.

Yeah... but middle of a line that's going to go for how long? If they didn't take the path they did, we'd still be getting random designs at random scales. I'm glad they chose something concrete. And I see the change towards cartoon accuracy just an evolution of that decision.

Bumblebee21 wrote:And the prices. Oh. My. God. $230 for a paint chipping megs. $140 for the fusos the size of Ironhide and ratchet.

It's a collector grade, imported toy. And if 36 was QC free, would you be complaining about that price?

Bumblebee21 wrote:How are mp-36 and mp-39 cartoon accurate when there's so much kibboe all over the place on them. Megs back is a kibbly mess. Should I even talk about sunstreaker and his buttflap and backpack

I can't explain why the vans have those hip panels are there. They could have easily been engineered to go somewhere else. But to say "kibble all over the place"... I mean let's be subjective. We're not talking about Big Convoy or AOE Leader Prime so come on.

I'm gonna go out on a very sturdy, well traveled limb that looks more like a sturdy wooden bridge and say they won't do anything special for MP-50 just because of the number. They just don't care about numbers. They're IDs and nothing more. Observe some historical examples:

• G1's C-100 Doublecross or D-100 Snapdragon
• G1's C-200 Landmine, all set to battle D-200 Non-Existent-Thing
• In Beast Wars: C-50 Tigerfalcon (Tigerhawk) and D-50 uh, oh wait that doesn't even exist in Takara Beast Wars despite there being plenty of molds that could've been used.
• TAV-50 Hyper Surge Optimus Prime, which sounds like a big deal until you remember that they did a much nicer version that felt like a special edition as the super important milestone number of TAV-61.
• LG-50 hasn't been announced but there's a safe bet this is just going to be something like Black Shadow, Broadside, etc.

shajaki wrote:-How do you feel about the current direction Takara is taking with slavish cartoon accuracy?

I hate it. I hate it with a passion. It is NOT what MP started out as, even with the 2.0 revival. Up until Magnus, they were always about taking the toy design, the animation design, mixing with modern engineering, and giving us the best possible toy.

Lets be honest, the animation from G1 was pretty bad, why in the name of God is Takara trying to duplicate it? Magnus wasn't bad, I really love that figure. Ironhide and Ratchet are a bit plain, but the uniqness make up for it. Shockwave was nothing more than a very slightly updated G1 figure, and Inferno/Grapple? They suck, hard, moldy, goat balls.

Now, Sunstreaker looks to be taking more after Magnus than Inferno, and that is good. I hope Takara has realized their mistake.

ScottyP wrote:I'm gonna go out on a very sturdy, well traveled limb that looks more like a sturdy wooden bridge and say they won't do anything special for MP-50 just because of the number. They just don't care about numbers. They're IDs and nothing more. Observe some historical examples:

While I completely agree with you, I think that just maybe the MP line might be the exception. But I'm seriously not holding my breath either.

Ironhidensh wrote:Now, Sunstreaker looks to be taking more after Magnus than Inferno, and that is good. I hope Takara has realized their mistake.

I'm surprised to hear you say that Sunstreaker isn't a huge offender. Given that head sculpt, and how much complaining has arisen because of it I thought you wouldn't be down for 39.

And as I said, you might be left in the dust by TT, but not the 3P's

Well, I meant more the body style. Less plain panels, and silly cartoon proportions for the body parts. That head is bad, but I could probably get over it.

Ironhidensh wrote:Lets be honest, the animation from G1 was pretty bad, why in the name of God is Takara trying to duplicate it?

Well... because it's popular. People love that show, to the extent they put on rose-tinted glasses to say the animation is clearly way better than anything we get today... even though it really shows its age and even for its time I don't think it was very good. Point is, it's bad, but people love it. Same reason we're getting stuff like the Emoji movie or Transformers 8.

Kurona wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:Lets be honest, the animation from G1 was pretty bad, why in the name of God is Takara trying to duplicate it?

Well... because it's popular. People love that show, to the extent they put on rose-tinted glasses to say the animation is clearly way better than anything we get today... even though it really shows its age and even for its time I don't think it was very good. Point is, it's bad, but people love it. Same reason we're getting stuff like the Emoji movie or Transformers 8.

But why the change to that direction? For all the complaints I heard of the MP line over the years, "I wish these had the proportions if a poorly drawn (though beloved, even by me) 80's cartoon" was never one of them.


Maybe I'm just old. Like Shajaki says though, at least we have the 3rd party to cater to our tiny slice of the pie. I know, and understand why, MP will never be a mainline focus priority for Hastak, but a man can dream.

shajaki wrote:-How do you feel about the current direction Takara is taking with slavish cartoon accuracy?

Not a fan to be honest. Bobby Skullface did a very good pair of videos that pretty much sum up my thoughts on the decisions, but I'll write them out here.

I feel like the change in focus from "Make it instantly recognizable as the cartoon character whilst also giving it details and features that make it feel more modern, visually interesting and worth the price" to "Recreate the cartoon down to the last detail (or lack thereof) regardless of how bland it looks" was a mistake. The cartoon had cool designs for sure, but for a modern toy they really, really need some extra details to not look terrible. Case in point, the legs of Prime versus Inferno. Prime isn't actually THAT slavishly cartoon accurate but we can all agree he's the best G1 Prime we've ever gotten- even the 3Ps haven't topped him. His legs, in particular, are covered in extra sculpted detailing that wasn't present on the cartoon model (for obvious reasons) but look awesome, don't feel out of place and give him visual interest. Meanwhile, Inferno's legs are completely blank and undetailed, and it looks terrible if I'm honest. A shame as his actual engineering is great, but aesthetically he misses the boat.

If you look at, say, Gundam model kits, even the most anime-accurate figures still take some liberties with the design, because the animation was from 1979 and they know full well nobody wants a perfectly 0079-accurate Zaku.

Personally I'd like to see Hisashi Yuki take the reins back on the MP line. He's a monstrously talented designer and is responsible for some of the best toys in the franchise.

-The last Seeker (Dirge) is about to be released. Do you think that perhaps an injustice has been done by remolding MP-3 over and over again rather than starting over from scratch?

I really, really think that MP-3/11 is way past its sell-by date. No waist articuation, awful hands, loads of kibble, wonky proportions and a fiddly chest assembly that doesn't hold together. And that's before we start on the mold degradation. That thing needs taking behind the barn and shooting, and preferably replacing with a completely new mold. The jet mode was great, the original releases had cool if kibbly robot modes, but it really is time to let the poor thing rest.

-The rate of releases is pretty steady. Anyone think MP-50 will be a big deal?

Whilst I'm not sure it will be a big deal, it would be cool if it was and we got something special. An MP Fortress Maximus would be amazing- sure it couldn't be "in scale" with the rest of the line, but even if it was "only" the size of the G1 toy it'd be an incredible addition to any collection.

One thing I'd like to see is some more non-G1 MPs. The BW stuff is a nice fork in the road, and the MPMs look great, but there's others I'd like to see too. G2 Prime and Megatron (and the Scourge redeco of Prime to go with it), RID Megatron, Armada MPs in general...

shajaki wrote:There's huge discussion regarding each new MP, but I figure since each major line has it's own General Discussion thread then it's about time we had one for the Masterpieces!

I'll kick it off with a couple thoughts:
-How do you feel about the current direction Takara is taking with slavish cartoon accuracy?
-The last Seeker (Dirge) is about to be released. Do you think that perhaps an injustice has been done by remolding MP-3 over and over again rather than starting over from scratch?
-The rate of releases is pretty steady. Anyone think MP-50 will be a big deal?

Discuss!

Good idea.

I've limited my collection to Masterpiece (with a few exceptions...I'm a lifelong TF fan, so it is hard to be 100% anything with such wonderful product, as well as having a young son).

I love the current direction. The I think the engineering backflips they have to perform to get some of these to meet a certain quality of presentation to any source is pretty well unappreciated based on comments I sometimes see here. I'm talking your MP Tracks comments, the pre-release chatter about Ironhide, Megatron and Inferno. All turned out to be great!

I think the current mold is servicable enough. One day, they will have to re-do it totally and hopefuly it will be even better. I'm not saying it is perfect.

Deferring to their current refusal to assign "value" to series number, I would err on it not being a big deal, but that could change, too. I wouldn't want to wait this long, but MP-50 would be pretty awesome as Jazz/Meister. I could see many other choices here, as well. If I had a wish, it would be either Galvatron or a revamped Loddymass Conboy.

Black Hat wrote:One thing I'd like to see is some more non-G1 MPs. The BW stuff is a nice fork in the road, and the MPMs look great, but there's others I'd like to see too. G2 Prime and Megatron (and the Scourge redeco of Prime to go with it), RID Megatron, Armada MPs in general...

Armada Prime was close second behind StarSaber on the poll.
But it looks like it doesn't ring bells in Takara's hedquarters..

1. Star Saber (Transformers Victory) – 31.2%
2. Convoy (Micron Legend) / Transformers Armada Optimus Prime – 24.3%
3. Super Ginrai (Chojin Masterforce) / Powermaster Optimus Prime (Generation 1) – 18.6%
4. Dai Atlas (Transformer Zone) – 8.0%
5. Super Fire Convoy (Car Robots) / Robots in Disguise Optimus Prime – 4.9%
6. Beast Convoy / Beast Wars Optimus Primal – 4.6%
7. Galaxy Convoy (Galaxy Force) / Transformers Cybertron Optimus Prime – 2.5%
8. Big Convoy (Beast Wars Neo) – 2.1%
9. Lio Convoy (Beast Wars Second) – 2.0%